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Posts
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Wolf
Posts: 22“By the power of Grayskull! No more Goblins! Please! Pleeeease! No, goblin, no! NOOOOOOOO…”
A long awaited partch has brought for us… erm… more goblins? Yes, indeed. Now there are a lot more goblins. Goblins are everywhere. North, south, east, west and even under your mom’s dress. They are literally everywhere, waiting for your goods, laughin and making ugly faces. Not as ugly as a creeper can do, but still ugly enough to make me want crush them. I HATE goblins. Especially after they are everywhere. All my fucking 5 hours in dungeon were like *huff huff huff huff huff huff huff FUCK huff huff huff huff huff huff FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK huff huff huff huff huff huff huff* because it was not so easy to catch those stupid sprinters while wearing few hundreds kilograms of metal armor. 33 levels of dungeon = 5 hours of triathlon. Atleast now I’m an Ironman. Seriously, 33 levels of dungeon and the only feeling I got was that there is nothing but an infinite stupid goblins. Of course there were some rare strong mobs such as dragons and ghosts(cutie little thing), but only a pair for one lvl. Rare traps, rare holes, rare altars and rare chests with shitty loot. I mean: really? The only things I got for whole 5 hours were goblins and my stolen hunting skill? I lost my level, lost my time, began to hate dungeon even more. Is this how JVH wanted to see his new update? Wanted to make it more casual with flame demons on 4th level and and seeing only one ghost for all 33 levels. 2 archmages, 5 dragons, ~10 creepers and haunted remains. It is indeed impressive amount of meetings for 5 hours. All that time my dungeon raid was like chasing after goblins and trying to find those stupid stairs. But in the end my level was stolen and now I’m writing this message. I was so fucking happy to use my lantern and finally to go and have some sleep, because I thought I could really die from that endless boredom and frustration.
JVH. I’m still want to belive that it’s all just a bug of level generation, or some miscalculations. I don’t think you could turn the dungeon into a newbie slaughterhouse, and boredom for all who’ll risk to go deeper. The shit I have met on 33lvl – I want to see it already on 10lvl. And, I suppose, newbies won’t be glad to met a flame demons on L4.
The next thing that is necessary – not only the stairs, dungeon needs something else that can drag you into deeper levels. Maybe, a visible holes? I’m not saying about hole-traps, I just want a visible hole that I can jump into. If it’ll teleport me 5 levels deeper, I will be extremly happy. But I guess I will be very sad if it’ll break pair of my legs…
And… about this new mob “Haunted Remains”. I bet I was his first victim. From 62 hunting skill to 61. From 109lvl to 108. I’m literally lost my whole lvl, somewhere around 40k of exp. With the new dungeon population system, that shit costed me ~5 hours of nonstop mob farming. To say it pissed me f* of is to say nothing. Does it steals the highest skill, or random one, or only hunting? The question is unclear, and I don’t even want to find it out. Well… I can’t say is this machanic imbalance or not. On one hand we have a scary mob that should be killed only by arrows, on the other hand we have another reason to not go in dungeon. Just Imagine how Sir Blacula loses one of his hunting skill lvl! I bet there will be minus 2-3 lvl at once! No one will even want to go there because of fear of loss. So even me, the mighty unkillable tank, now shivers in his LOCKER and don’t wants to get out. I’m saying this about all solo players. A simple party can withstand any danger of the underworld, but in the current online condition only FL can make something like tribe raid, so the situation is unclear.
Also, I want to ask you JVH about the game’s online status. When it is holding on average amount of 10-15 players… it is sad, you know. Because of this there will be not enough feedback and suggestions, and the game itself is already looks like dead. Of course some loyal players will support the server costs and wait for further updates, but… it’s just like waiting a person getting out from coma. Wait, feed, wait, feed, and hope that someday he’ll seem lively again. JVH, I know you made some preparations for rising up online. You made an automatic donation system, infinite dungeon system for late game content and fixed some bugs. The only things that left are few technical issues with disconnections and siege machanics. After that the game will be played as it should be. So I just wanted to hear your thoughts about it.
Should be enough. I’m not in the mood right now to write more. The whole two weeks I feel myself depressed and tired, so that’s why there is no positive expressions in my text. For now I just want to finish telling my general thoughts about the update, so atleast there will be a bit of feedback for the first day. And yeah, sorry about non edited text. I was too lazy.
Goblin
Posts: 73I will be honest, I saw the patch notes last night and my excitement went from 10 to 0 rather quickly.
I thought about making a post, but the inactivity in the forums and strained communication makes me feel like it is a waste.
But I am glad that Odovir posted and will post my overall general thoughts with the caveat: I have not played. My character is still in Tribe City, and will remain there for now.
So let’s switch gears and start making the world a bit more casual ?
Oh! More casual? Great. It does require a lot of effort to stay afloat in the game and that can be taken away quickly.
Excitement level 11/10
The experience penalty for deaths in the underworld is less than half of what it was.
The experience penalty for deaths in the overworld and underground is less than a fourth of what it was.
Now when you die, instead of dropping all loot you have a 1/3 chance to drop each item. Mystera Legends players will be familiar with this system.
You no longer lose tribe affiliation or rank on death (this may change after further testing).That is pretty good news! I thought that the game was just turning into a grief therapy simulator. But all of these featuers will make it better for people who are not ready or who do not want such a loss. Population will increase. Awesome!
Excitement level STILL 11/10
Dust and assassin experience amounts have been adjusted relative to the new penalties.
Well, It makes sense. Although it does mean that those who have over 8000 dust will be dominating the trait system. However: A) they worked for it, and B) I’m still not even sure that having all of those traits gives a significant advantage over others.
Excitement level not affected
New ‘Lock’ item will allow you to secure your item stacks from thieves and invaders. Only a random 10% of the secured items can be looted by enemies per day. This way you can recover most of your valuable stuff even if you are killed and robbed. Build with gold, silver, and copper.
Something to use copper for that is not to make bronze! That sounds good. I’m okay with that. Though it’s kinda shitty that the siege process is considerably a long and grindy progress and you would now be able to only take 10% of the loot. Seems like a weird mechanic to counteract thieves. Maybe adding a new skill to lockpick said locks with a chance of success would be a nice counter. But erm… Well, and it takes gold. Gold is extremely rare nowadays with the changes. But maybe there is a change to that? (*eyes at UW changes*)I feel dubious about this patch now… let’s drop down Excitement level a couple of notches.
Excitement level 9/10
Exploration experience is only granted when you explore areas you haven’t been to recently.
Well, so long exploration macro! I’ve said it before and I will say it again. I AFK macro exploration. But, now I feel bad because there is no way that anybody can catch those of us who macro’ed. Unless we die (a lot of times now because of the xp changes), we will be so much more quicker than those who have not. Not sure how these changes will affect the overall gameplay. But, it seems that exploration now is just a sucky skill with no real benefit (like questing…). A fellow tribe member tested it and it seems to be the same reward but you now have to look for new places somewhere. Does that mean that you have to continually go down the dungeon and hope to hit those new areas to receive minimal xp gain? I guess explo is now meant to be an afterthought. I am just confused.
Excitement level “Cannot compute. Please try again later”.
Mages and Flame Demons now have ‘Penetrate’ which ignores armor.
Maybe Odo can answer, or someone else. Is the “Penetrate” a constant skill? Or it a chance thing? Mages were extremely weak, so I’m okay with this. Flame Demons were not really weak. Although I guess that’s what I get for not leveling Medium or Heavy Armor. Except… Isn’t that the point of armors anyway, some are better than others again damage? How the hell are flames penetrating Bronze armor? But, I digress… Another question for Odovir or anyone else who has gone to the UW, does anybody know if the Penetrate is scaled with the armor? I.e., light armor gets more damage than the heavy armor? Or does everyone get hit the same? A more important change that was needed was to the Flame Demons pathing. I mean, they are still incredibly weak, because you just need to use a spear or arrows on them. They are aimless, and usually easily avoided.
Excitement level “Cannot compute. Please try again later”.
Clubbing and hammer weapons penetrate armor.
New ‘Mace’ weapon in the clubbing category.Yes! My random skilling in Clubbing will not be for nothing! Except, this sort of change is what pours salts over the level 50 nerf wound. I will not be able to be successful with this skill because I’m “ancient” now. I guess older people do learn slower. I just wish my AARP benefits included more than just a discount in xp gains.
Excitement level: salty, but willing to get over it.
Shield block formula reworked to be diminishing after skill level 50. You now take 1 damage instead of 0 when blocking.
LOL, wut? Your shield block will not actually block??? Just dampen some of the damage? Erm… ok… Seems like a weird thing. I mean, make it have a lesser chance of working. Or if the issue is that now players can regenerate their health because of it, then maybe reworking regeneration is the issue.
Excitement level: Why are we dealing with the effects and not the cause of the issue? Otherwise known as 6/10.
Armor can’t be equipped or unequipped if you have been in combat recently. You can still drop armor to unequip quickly.
Fuck that. I am not even gonna go into why this is not a good idea.
Excitement level: Solid 5/10.
When you visit an unexplored floor in the underworld it will automatically generate and start populating it with monsters and objects based on the depth. Every floor has an expiration of 1 week before it is reset by an ‘earthquake’.
There are three things that really motivated me with the game.
1. No matter what I did I was working toward getting better (higher levels). Then… the level 50 xp nerf patch came around. But, fine, cause I could still get some levels (albeit at an incredibly slow/grindy pace)
2. Within a couple of days of playing I was encouraged to contact the dev, JVH. He was incredibly friendly and showed me his excitement for the game. Somewhere in my mind, I know the game is still something that gets JVH excited, but ever since that same patch, communication has become a huge issue, causing me to rethink his excitement for the game.
But I still had #3. Mapping. A change every week? I cannot keep up with that.
As superficial as it sounds, Excitement level: 0/10.
But, you know what. I can just give myself a break. Get some real life work done and then see how things shake out. Maybe this patch brings in new players! Or brings old players back. Maybe things are not as grim as I think a non-mapping world is!
Traps are a new dungeon feature. Shard traps will be placed randomly on some floors.
Hole traps are invisible until you fall in them. They take you to the next floor down and give you a few seconds of invincibility.
Gold rocks and other types can be mined in the underworld now.
Mercy statues are no longer every 5 levels but generated randomly.
New NPC ‘Creeper’
New NPC ‘Ghost’
New NPC ‘Archmage’
New NPC ‘Haunted Remains’All of these changes sound, at least, somewhat interesting. Specially having gold rocks in the UW so that there are more chances for people to gain gold.
Not enough to pique my curiosity past my current excitement level, but I’m cool with that. I know I am not really quitting.
Fast forward to reading Odovir’s post.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
Yeah… this is shitty.
Polar Bear
Posts: 38Nothing that I say hasn’t already been said, and said better. These changes do not breed a more casual environment. Most of the changes make it impossible for new players to catch up, and demotivate older players to even log on. I am somewhere in the middle which is why I am still online… even if I am doing nothing at all atm. I assume because we are still in testing phases it will all even out after a fresh wipe, which I also assume is quite a bit away. With the way things are going I am unsure how many old players will stick long enough or even keep playing after the wipe. I was really excited for this patch. However, more and more it feels like the changes are made based on the feats that FL members do and we all know FL is not an accurate representation of the Server as whole. It might be because we are super active and that’s where the data is coming from but at this point many low level players feel disadvantaged. Nobody will ever pass my assassin level because of the drop in death loss. The same can be said for exploration, UW is unthinkable till lvl 40-50 AT LEAST. This means no gems for new players to even attempt to enchant their gear to try and keep up. I would love to suggest this game to other people but I can’t do that knowing full well that they wont have as much fun as I did when I started. At least before some of the massive nerfs, people had a fighting chance to catch up and dominate the server. I really hope this post doesn’t go unheard like some of the others. Because like I said in the xp nerf discussion I would really hate to see this game die… and thats the way it looks like its going.
I think I will stop here since I already posted more than I intended to. Sorry if it’s all over the place I just wrote what was on my mind.
Goblin
Posts: 94Shoooot, what am I doing here… I’m just stopping in to put in my feeling about the patch, since it seems it’s starkly different than you guys’ reaction to it.
Less death penalties does make it more casual, for everyone. I’m not sure how I’d stand on this personally but I think it’s good for new players overall who will die more often, even if they have less to lose. Overall probably a good thing for now.
New NPC’s, traps, clubbing are good things all around nobody can complain with.
I’m ambivalent on shield change and dungeon earthquakes.
I think if I had to complain about anything, it would be how the lock is an item that old players would have more easily as opposed to a system change that unilaterally assists new players.
The best, best, best change is the fact he fixed the rope exploit. I was researching and experimenting with this ever since I noticed strange logging-on-off proceeding people going through walls to enter (And then then break floors, set a staircase, break staircase to leave), but it seems that with Robin’s death, it finally got reported and sealed away. A more fair playing ground for everyone is always good!
I think overall the patch definitely favors player population growth and it’s something I’m happy about even though I uh. Well, you know.
Goblin
Posts: 99Throwing it out there that i broke into robins with Frost Legion the good old fashioned way: Hold space-bar vs some 1million hp walls. I’m not even sure really what the escape rope exploit was.
Polar Bear
Posts: 38Hey Native, glad to see you at least posting. But unless you are playing its hard for you to understand what we are complaining about. At least on my end I don’t feel the game has changed at all to me, I have good exploration, nobody can touch me on assassin, and my destruction is beast, and I rarely UW. Nothing in the patch will change that. Jopah has to deal with the armor penalty but he doesnt think its an unfair change. My issue with some of these changes are that new players coming in wont stand a chance against mobs in the New UW since you start with Flame Demons at lvl 4, much less other players. The locks take gold that are hard for new players to get, and it feels the same with every update. But I guess time will tell if new players stick around long enough to test it for us.
As for Robins death, no exploits were used. I dont know how “the rope bug” could have been used here since there were no nature tiles in Robins base other than his garden. And from what I remember the Rope bug had to do with the UW and even then I have no clue what it really did since I dont UW enough and have never taken rope to the UW. The logging-on-off thing I did learn about, almost tragically while helping expand our farm by taking down ruins. My net lagged me out, I d/c’d and had Sir been slower, afk, or lower level he might have died. That “sleeping bug” did not take you to the other side of the wall it just let you hit through it if you had a weapon that could have done so. I suspect this bug happened because it used to be a thing where you could hit through walls but it was OP and changed. Now to talk about Robins death directly. #1 We broke in … brick by brick and sealed it up behind us so that Apollo and Bruce wouldnt die to wild life or opportunists. #2 We put stairs in AFTER we were in because that base isnt made for multiply people to move around in. #3 You dont need to dig up a tile to put stairs in. Nothing in his death was shady or bug abusive. We were there for HOURS breaking walls… even one Dragon Scaled wall that took up the bulk of the time. and lastly #4 How we got out? We walked through our Tribe Gate. Nothing shady was done there. We even left your loot room(didnt know it was yours) because we knew 100% it wasnt Robins and therefore should be left alone. Btw if you doubt me, re create an I will show you how quickly I can take down a wall with my base level 60 destruction. Its even faster when we work as a tribe. Or if you dont want to, Jopah can send you the calculations since he worked out a formula to figure out how much time it would/should take.
If you wanna see fair playing ground then maybe you shouldnt blindly speak and support updates that legit make it harder for any new player to catch up to us. The only hope is that a group of friends join and work TOGETHER on stuff, even then they wont have the advantages FL had prior to the nerfs of gold, exploration, exp, etc. I think people forget that when we “complain” we dont just do it because we are unhappy for us. We do want more players and active ones. We want to have strong tribes to war with because that is the point of this game. But at this point, we would have to let ourselves die(we arent all Jopah) to even give other players a fighting chance. Anyways I only replied because I dont like the spreading of false/bad information.
Just wanted to chime in and correct some things because I’m seeing some negative opinions and assumptions that don’t reflect what we see.
The patch was not meant to cater to veteran players in tribes, but to newer or solo players. So it makes sense that veteran tribes have mixed feelings, and newer or returning players have more positive feelings.
It’s hard to get solid constructive feedback from these long posts sometimes. A concise post with a few sentences would bring attention to your concerns more effectively. From what I can gather someone found a flame demon on level 4 and then assumed the UW was now out of reach for newer players.
It seems like older players have forgotten what it feels like to explore as a new player, but we simulate this on the test server (with different levels and equipment). If you’ve played roguelike games you know how fun and exciting it can be to see something scary that you weren’t expecting and then have to choose another path. So yes, there is 1 single flame demon on level 4, because the new UW generation algorithm has a rare chance to spawn something a bit harder for the current floor. If that one flame demon is killed it may not show up again for days or weeks. The changes in the death penalty allows players to be a bit more reckless if they choose to fight. The vast majority of NPCs on the early levels are bats, skeletons, and snakes – even more than before. There are also more mercy statues than before. All of this means it is easier and more exciting for new players to catch up. Older players who gained their skill levels through previous patches will eventually die, balancing the game even further.
Thanks Native for posting publicly. I know most of the positive feedback we receive is in private because people are hesitant to argue with some high level players, so it can end up like an echo chamber in these threads.
We are seeing less macroing and alts, which people will agree is a good thing even if it means the game shows less players online. Many new players don’t have the desire or know-how to macro so this evens the playing field even more.
If everyone’s goal is to bring in more new players then we should all be hyping the positive aspects of theses patches that JVH works hard on (and still does his best to be excited about despite the negativity). You can still be positive with constructive criticism, like when Native expressed he likes the locks idea but is worried they might be too hard for new players to get.
Spreading the word and assisting new players are the best ways to raise the population right now. I made a post on reddit recently that brought in some new people, but even then a current player pasted some negative opinions from here onto the reddit post for some reason. This is very counter productive if we are trying to bring in new people with a fresh perspective. The feedback we are most interested in right now is from new, solo, or returning players – if you’re still worried about posting publicly then JVH and I are happy to keep receiving your emails and PMs.
The patch notes said adjustments would probably come soon, any balancing depends on the data JVH collects. If you are worried the numbers are off for something, let us know in a short message. If we haven’t addressed a particular concern it’s because we are either aware of the issue or the data says that the balance is fine. Thanks everyone!
Goblin
Posts: 73You want a short post, here goes:
1) Don’t disregard the good points that I expressed at the top, or the questions that I asked to understand the patch itself.
2) Don’t ask people to write shorter posts with a long post.
Wolf
Posts: 22Well, since Ivana has made a reply, I’ll make one too.
No need to mention that negative feedback will depress JVH and kill his nerves, yours as well. So let me just open one single truth. If players are willing to spend their time for making long posts, then they are definetly not unconcerned. You should know that non loyal player will keep silent and then just leave the game, when loyal ones may scream and blame everything, but keep playing. Like a parents who want to raise a child as a good man. Even if their reaction is not positive, that doesn’t mean they are just haters. They see a problems, wich can’t see JVH. It’s more easier to point at problem with negative expression than being a gabber and say how cool is the update and what a good boy is JVH and what a faithful wife is Ivana. Every update is great by default, as it brings us… new things? Yes. Bugfixes and balance changes too – this is all what people want to see and what developer brings to us. How can we be negative with that? Well, we really can’t. But just imagine: you’re in a lustrous restaurant with extremly expensive food. The waiter brings you long awaited dish. A beautiful, yummy steak. Atleast you thought it is, because you already paid for it 200 bucks. And then you suddenly found that this beatiful steak was fully poured in shitty stinky sauce. Some one may thought that it was a liquid shit from the ass of a man with non stopping for months diarrhea. “What the heck” – you think. But you already paid for it 200 bucks, so you’ll definetly take a bite. And here you go… As you thought, the meat was excelent. But the sauce… That sauce makes you tongue to want take a rope and hang itself on a closest tree. Finished imaging? Fine! Then please tell me, what do you will comment in this situation? The beautiful meat or the shitty sauce? I know you know the answer. We all know. So that is why you see a lot of negative posts. Because JVH made good and bad changes at the same time. No one said he done a shitty work, but still somehow most of players are nor satisfied with an update, and it must tell you something. The negative feedback is the first thing any author should be prepared to, and I’m telling you that as an author myself. JVH shouldn’t be depressed that someone is not liking the work he done – he should be glad that he still recieves comments. Same goes for you, Ivana. Don’t try to justify him or youself, but ask more questions. Ask players: Why? What’s wrong? Why do you think that? Any arguments? Find problems, search for reasons, fix shit.
Next. I get it what you have said. One Flame Demon on L4 as a scarecrow for newbies is a good thing. Dungeon must be scary place, where no one can enter unprepared. And let us don’t forget that this is online game, and playing solo is not an easy option. For party the dungeon is not as scary. But… But. BUT!!! Gobl… No I mean the levels generation is too overstretched. It was already said by me. The only scary levels in UW are upper one, and only for noobs. Then it’s difficulty SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWLY increases. And this is hellish BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING. Trust me. No one will want to play a game where spending 5 hours in broing dungeon will bring you nothing but a pain and lost levels lol. Same goes for “siege”. No one will want to play a game when the only pvp is killing sleepers after ninja hammering their walls. Ninja Legacy, a new Sanbox Roguelike Ninjahammering MMORPG. If you want to bring new players, then you should improve the game first, or they’ll just leave with the words like “WTF”. Even if the veteran player says wtf, then what do you think a newbie will? I assume it was enough to make you understand.
About other update changes. Some of them a good, some of them makes me want to ask questions. The time will show.
And… one more word about making posts shorter, and my little punk with his James Victor hammer will creep freaking out all your base. Strengthen, defend, multiply your walls. But nothing will save you if you dare to shut up the writer.
Goblin
Posts: 99(his hammer used for destro is named James Victor)
Polar Bear
Posts: 38I thought for many hours on how to reply to this without losing my shit on you, because you did exactly what you said we shouldnt do. At no point did I tell Native he shouldnt have posted. I only said that MAYBE he should have played before singing its praises. This is gonna be my first time using Block quote and shit so excuse me if I mess up. I do hope you read through my reply, although I truly believe you wont.
The patch was not meant to cater to veteran players in tribes, but to newer or solo players. So it makes sense that veteran tribes have mixed feelings, and newer or returning players have more positive feelings.
At no point have I ever asked to be catered to. There might be some vet players who feel the updates have killed the game for them. However, I am not one of them. I am sitting pretty with my BASE Lvl 59 Exploration, Lvl 60 Destruction, Lvl 21 Archery, and Lvl 21 Assassin. This update in no way hurts me.
It’s hard to get solid constructive feedback from these long posts sometimes. A concise post with a few sentences would bring attention to your concerns more effectively. From what I can gather someone found a flame demon on level 4 and then assumed the UW was now out of reach for newer players.
All this tells me is that we care enough about this game to write out long detailed posts voicing our concern but you dont care enough to read them. You care even less to try and understand them. I have said time and time again, nicer than how I will say it now, that I dont give a fuck about nerfs, changes, etc. I have gamed long enough to understand that changes happen, especially when you are playing a developing game. I roll with changes, and excel at them, but that doesnt mean I wont say something if I feel it is damaging to a game I LOVE and want to see succeed.
It seems like older players have forgotten what it feels like to explore as a new player, but we simulate this on the test server (with different levels and equipment). If you’ve played roguelike games you know how fun and exciting it can be to see something scary that you weren’t expecting and then have to choose another path. So yes, there is 1 single flame demon on level 4, because the new UW generation algorithm has a rare chance to spawn something a bit harder for the current floor. If that one flame demon is killed it may not show up again for days or weeks. The changes in the death penalty allows players to be a bit more reckless if they choose to fight. The vast majority of NPCs on the early levels are bats, skeletons, and snakes – even more than before. There are also more mercy statues than before. All of this means it is easier and more exciting for new players to catch up. Older players who gained their skill levels through previous patches will eventually die, balancing the game even further.
Well lets just keep saying shit that isnt true. You think I have forgotten in less than 2 months of game play what it feels like to be new? I was treated like a vet from day one because of Jopah… so all questions I had yeah I went to him…. but there is still stuff I dont know. There is still stuff I am figuring out. Not to mention that I spend most of my game time talking to new/low level players. As for older players dying out … this is hilarious since you just lessened the death penalty. Not to mention there have been a few patches and I have not seen Sir die once. Jopah died by choice, Odovir to lag, Oracle and I to bugs. And hey, we are still on top. In my last few trips to the UW I have taken MAYBE a total of 100hp of dmg because I am careful and as Odovir said the mobs are predictable.
Thanks Native for posting publicly. I know most of the positive feedback we receive is in private because people are hesitant to argue with some high level players, so it can end up like an echo chamber in these threads.
I was happy to see Native post, because I like to not feel like I am talking to myself. I replied to him the way I did because he was posting false information as if it were fact. We did not use a single bug to kill Robin. The thing about forums is that people will disagree. It is not that “High levels” argue more. Some do, others dont. Jopah was the highest level in the game for a long time and he RARELY posts. Sir is the highest level in the game… also rarely posts. I can tell you it wouldnt matter what my level is/was, I would always argue. Especially when asked to voice my opinions… who asked me to do that again? Oh! Thats right it was YOU, Ivana. I said I didnt forum for a reason. This right here would be the reason. People like the ideas of forums until they get a reply they dont like. You seem to only like post that sing JVH praises, but fail to see that all replies are doing just that. The fact that I am still here, albeit pissed off, means that I like this game and see its potential.
We are seeing less macroing and alts, which people will agree is a good thing even if it means the game shows less players online. Many new players don’t have the desire or know-how to macro so this evens the playing field even more.
Now this really made me laugh… If you want a more accurate accounting of “Active players” maybe stop fudging the numbers by saying on your website that there are 128 online players. There are 128 accounts, most are alts, and as of writing this there are 8 People online. 4 are Frost Leigon(Jopah, Dyrir, Odovir, and myself), 2 are alts(Punching/Tux and Dungeonman-SPK’s alt), and one is a known afker(Tee). As for the macros, if you dont want macro’s in the game ban them. Its that simple. But JVH has already said, he doesnt care… and he did a great work around. But now, NEW PLAYERS, have to walk 4-8 tiles to get the same xp that I got from walking on one. I do not care if they exist or not at this point. Why? Because those of us who used it reaped all the benefits of it. *looks at base exploration* I already almost out run the server and I routinely walk the whole make anyways. The only reason I kept the macro going was because it felt stupid to stay logged in but not be doing something… and I like to read chat. At this point the chat is dead and walking macro is over… but there are other things that can be macro’d… those who know how to macro know what I mean. As for less alts… well nah I wont touch on that you will figure it out with time.
If everyone’s goal is to bring in more new players then we should all be hyping the positive aspects of theses patches that JVH works hard on (and still does his best to be excited about despite the negativity). You can still be positive with constructive criticism, like when Native expressed he likes the locks idea but is worried they might be too hard for new players to get.
Here is where I got mad. You may or may not have access to our chats in game… but I know you dont have access outside of the game or on chat services. And trust me when I say that I talked non stop about ML outside of the game. When I fall in love with a game it becomes my focus and I dedicate time and money to it. When the xp nerf came, player activity died down, I kept playing. I kept trying to motivate my tribe to come back and be active. I managed to get Sir back on which brought my new gaming bestie Nefee back in full swing <3. When I died to a bug… I lost a lot… you guys fixed it some. I stayed positive and still sung your praises, even when people would tell me how mad/sad I should feel in privet. Every time a player has died I have tried to help where and when I could to show the positives of this game, so its offensive as one of the more active players of the game that you would say all we bring is negativity. I am not Native, and I am not you Ivana, I am Sephi, I will speak the way I always have. Which is blunt as fuck… because being passive aggressively sweet has never worked for me. When I have something to say to someone I fucking say it. Which brings me to my last quote of the night…
Spreading the word and assisting new players are the best ways to raise the population right now. I made a post on reddit recently that brought in some new people, but even then a current player pasted some negative opinions from here onto the reddit post for some reason. This is very counter productive if we are trying to bring in new people with a fresh perspective.
I am a business major, I network for a living, I know how to spread the word for anything I am in love with. I also know how quickly motivation to do so can die down when I fall out of love with something. Word of mouth makes or breaks any new/developing game. I did plan to make a reddit post myself(prior to the update) because I knew thats where most of the players had come in from before. I have never posted on Reddit and only made my account this week. I wanted to get the wording right… when BAM! Update and I needed to see how it played out before deciding to FREELY advertise the game. The player who copied my post, and we all know it was my post, did so without so much as a word to me. I was pretty upset to see my words used against the game… I would have preferred that player to have said it in this thread… Mainly because it being agreed with outside of here did not help the situation in the slightest. To my knowledge it was not anyone in FL…and it most certainly was not me. Even though you passive aggressively tried to make it seem like it was. Next time save yourself the bs run around and ask me directly. I have never felt the need to hide any of my actions. I did think to reply in the reddit post, encouraging new players to try it for themselves and reaching out to me for help. I wanted to get the wording right… But after “The feedback we are most interested in right now is from new, solo, or returning players” it basically tells me you dont give a shit what your active an dedicated players think or say. So why bother. It is BS to say the least that you are blaming my post when there is negativity coming from new players that did try it out but it feels like you would rather blame me. I dont mind… I am an aggressive girl who is good at grinding in games… I am used to it.
TL; DR I am putting this because I assume you don’t care enough to read my post but needed to reply since you made assumptions about us too… Hypocrite much.
Odovir, your posts are always silly and fun 🙂
I think you just misunderstood me.. We don’t mind your posts, or anyone else’s. It can be as long and have as much flair as you want..
BUT
If it involves a genuine concern or suggestion then it is more visible to us when it’s shorter. With long posts, the ‘meat’ of the issue gets overshadowed by the way you express your thoughts.Also, I’m not positive but it sounds like you are threatening to break into our base lol. That would be another example of what I was saying earlier: why some people are afraid to express a different opinion in these threads..!
Don’t worry about JVH btw, he isn’t depressed by any of this lol, like I said he is receiving positive feedback it just isn’t in this thread. He is actually pretty happy about the results so far. It’s fine to go on rants and express disappointment, it just makes it harder to see your main concerns. Too much negativity also has an affect on the playerbase, making people think things are way worse than they actually are.
I know JVH values your feedback, but since we have limited time I would prefer it if any main concerns were more easily accessible. Basically, post however you want. If there’s a main issue you think needs to be addressed, highlight it for me somehow or send me a PM (again, the shorter the better!).
Sephi, I see you just posted while I was writing this for Odovir. I didn’t mean to cause you any offense, and I already knew it wasn’t you who posted the reddit comment so no worries.
I asked JVH about the exploration, you get the same amount for distance walked as always (it’s calculated over longer distances).Even though we are most interested in feedback from newer players right now, it doesn’t mean we don’t care about what everyone else thinks. We all want more players to join and to have a fun balanced game for as many people as possible – the game isn’t even a year old, we will get there! 🙂
Goblin
Posts: 73he is receiving positive feedback it just isn’t in this thread
Goddamn… shorter posts so maybe you can see that there is positive feedback…
Oh! More casual? Great. It does require a lot of effort to stay afloat in the game and that can be taken away quickly.
Excitement level 11/10
Should I wait for a reply? Make a new post? Or can I keep re-posting what I already stated?
Goblin
Posts: 73the experience penalty for deaths in the underworld is less than half of what it was.
The experience penalty for deaths in the overworld and underground is less than a fourth of what it was.
Now when you die, instead of dropping all loot you have a 1/3 chance to drop each item. Mystera Legends players will be familiar with this system.
You no longer lose tribe affiliation or rank on death (this may change after further testing).That is pretty good news! I thought that the game was just turning into a grief therapy simulator. But all of these featuers will make it better for people who are not ready or who do not want such a loss. Population will increase. Awesome!
Excitement level STILL 11/10
Ok! I clearly need to be speaking up here!
First, I’m going to address some basic points, you say that veteran players have mixed feelings because it doesn’t cater?! This is ridiculous, since the bulk of the issues are because of our concern for new players! Nefer even mentioned the exact same lock issue that Native did! Not to mention, at least half of her post was praising the positive things! If you only praise things, and give zero negative feedback on bad things, then there is no chance for anything to be improved.
I’d also like to point out that Native isn’t a new or returning player, he’s someone that quit already, and other than reading the notes for 2 minutes, he hasn’t seen any of the actual effects of this update.
On the topic of ‘less macro and alt’… HA! fine, people stopped macroing exploration, great, I have absolutely zero issue with this, in fact I think the only issue that has been brought up with this, is that the counter measure is so severe, that exploration is insanely difficult to level up now at all, which is a problem for noobs, not veterans… however, in 10-11 hours of just hanging out, the only notable events for the day, were 3 people reaching a level achievement… ALL 3 of which… were ALTS! What you are perceiving as ‘less alts’, is in actuality, just less people being interested in the game at all.
OH WAIT! I forgot one! Remember that EXTREMELY rare ‘slightly more difficult, than the uw level’ mob spawn that only happens once every few weeks?(even though I personally ran into both a skeleton lord and flame demon on the very first level of the underworld almost immediately upon spawning the level for the first time) Well the other thing that happened was… “dendav dendav has fallen on underworld level 7! They were level 47 and skilled at hunting. Killed by a Green Dragon.” Clearly these difficult mobs never show up in lower levels… And you know, I MUST be complaining because I’m terrified of all these mobs… not like I haven’t slain literally hundreds of them or anything…
Gold has been nerfed, changed, tweaked, and nerfed I think over half a dozen times since I’ve been playing. I’ve taken issue with it almost every step of the way… but not because I can’t get gold… but because, as mentioned by both nefer and native, for new and solo players it’s nearly impossible to harvest decent amounts of gold in this new system. I’d be willing to bet even a semi-experienced player could barely harvest a few dozen gold in nearly a full day of working at it. And yet, when I held a FL gold gathering party, we still managed to raise well over 400 gold in just a few hours. You keep talking about so many decisions being based on data collected as people play, but you’re not accounting for the fact that the current bulk of the active player base aren’t ‘normal’ players. They are an active, motivated, well-organized group that does things beyond what typical players will do. You are basing decisions on skewed data, and not even realizing it, then scolding players for trying to point it out.
If FL is motivated to accomplish something, nerfs won’t stop it. Robin had bragged about having the best, top of the line suit for UW, that he didn’t need to do anymore, because it was the best. I put over twice as much in pretty much every aspect to full sets of bows for FL members… TWICE… not to mention pouring OVER double the energy he put into his whole entire set, into my sword alone. With that amount of time, energy and devotion, how could you not expect exceptional/unnatural results? And keep in mind, all that was just from 1 player, not even accounting for all the other members’ efforts!
Speaking of those bows, that reminds me of a good transition. I spent thousands of resources remaking bows everyone after the originals were taken away. This included stacks of +1 bows, which FL distributed to newer players that might have been hurt by the bug that removed all + bows… including a new bow to… Native! who had actually received the first one from FL. FL has spent hundreds of thousands of resources trying to help new players, and yet somehow it’s always overlooked. Before 80-90% of today’s players existed, we build public buildings like the ‘noob inn’ for players to heal, before there was ways to heal other than beds. We also included large kitchens, for players to cook food, or smelt ores, when they didn’t have fire pits yet. These sorts of projects were griefed dozens of times, and yet we kept spending our own resources and rebuilding them to try and help new players. FL has down more to build and maintain roads for new players than any other person or group in the game, this wasn’t for personal use, I specifically designed a new road, that is closed off and UG to demonstrate what it would be like if I orchestrated private roads, which I could have done the entire time to prevent griefing. Many FL members routinely would venture down into the UW, and give up our personal hard earned lanterns, to help rescue new players that accidentally fell down and couldn’t figure out how to get out, not to mention help with questions, or even items to help people get started. Lets not forget the market place! FL was the one that started the area for the market place. Cleared the area, designed and paved all the roads(yet again) for the layout, even paid you Ivana, from our own stocks, so you could afford to relocate so there could be a more centralized marketplace for players to go. And when you and everyone else sold items for ridiculous, overpriced amounts, like basic gear for thousands of building materials, or 140 arrows for 30 gold and nonsense like that… FL loaded our market with things like large stacks of food, and pickaxes for people to easily be able to get increased yields on one of the most valuable early game resources in exchange for people’s used/useless hair and body potions… then loaded up with bronze gear, and good mining accessories for small amounts like only 50 stone. We also put up some basic gold/silver exchange rates for people that had a hard time getting one of the other, this was done at flat rates, instead of profit, like sooo many people told me should be done. How do you think we’ve done all this, and I’m quite sure there is plenty more that I’m not even mentioning(Ooo, just remembered what I’d think is a majority of the work on the wiki), and not thought about the fact that helping new players is important? I think we possibly had one of the only markets in the entire game that purposely operated on a loss, instead of aiming for huge profits.
GAH! So much more I want to talk about, but really, I don’t know if I care enough anymore to go on much longer. So I’ll leave on one final note… I would be willing to bet, that I am THE only player that has been playing actively and consistently for going on 6 months now. Even SPKrylos(who I believe created shortly before me) has taken time away from the game. I’ve played, and helped new players for longer than any other player around. I’ve leveled past 80/100 more times from low levels than almost any other player I think also, and I’ve died down clear to L0, from higher levels, than any other player, especially with full gameplay experience and not pure farming. I think it’s just plain wrong, both in principle, and as a dev, to effectively say you don’t care about my opinion because of this. Telling your most active and dedicated portion of the player base you don’t give a fuck what they think is how you kill a game, not how you build it up.
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