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Hello, I was hoping there would already be a topic here from Pyco or Stalki, but since I’m not seeing one, I guess I’m one of the next best people to post on the issue.
This game is great, but quite relentless enough already. Losing almost everything because of a technical glitch like a d/c, or net going out and a router needing to be reset doesn’t add to the difficulty of the game, it just makes people want to quit. We’ve already had a handful of people die due to reasons like this, Odovir, Pyco and myself are some that come to mind.
A potential idea for an appropriate way to battle this quite major issue in a perpetual login game, is add in a temporary invulnerability for people that get d/c. Even 3-5 minutes would make it so people with potential connection issues aren’t punished for not being able to get a strong/stable connection. I know there is probably concern of abuse, so maybe make a requirement that they can’t have less than 40% hp or something, stopping people from trying to use it for protection from almost dying. As well as stopping the regen that would typically take place during normal log-out sleep. Also taking the invulnerability away as soon as they have been logged back in stable for only like 5 seconds.
I don’t know if this is a viable solution, both for the game’s vision or the technical ability to differentiate in dropped connection vs logout. (other than people logging out appropriately via the ‘x’ in game or /quit) However, I do feel this is a major issue that will need to be addressed sooner or later, or risk any player base that is built, leaving because dying for no reason doesn’t encourage people to put time and energy into building something.
I hope you guys have time to read this, and I hope Ivana can come and post the dev team’s thoughts and any potential fixes that would be balanced but address this horrible situation.
Thank you for your time. ~ Jopah
p.s. We hope you come back Pyco, if not, know that you’ll be missed.
Goblin
Posts: 73Thank you for posting this! I kept waiting for a post or for the right words to come.
I am honestly frustrated with solid players leaving the game. I know we signed up for a game that will be brutal upon our deaths, but it should be because someone killed us, or because we went to the wrong neighborhood of UW14 (I’m still getting over that room..)
The game is already a grind, and losing so much because your internet or computer failed you seems like an even steeper price.
I can’t even fathom people abusing it, really. It’s not an eternal invulnerability, so if they don’t come back in time they will lose it anyway and be at risk, specially in the UW. And if they do come back mobs will still be around wandering a bit. Maybe make it so that once they log back on they are invulnerable but also cannot move for 10 seconds or something like that? So it’s not just something that you can log back on and hoof it. I’m just spitballing measures to avoid abusing.
I will add to Jopah’s sentiment. I truly hope that Pyco comes back.
Polar Bear
Posts: 45I like the idea of preventing movement during the invulnerability. This is definitely something that could be abused otherwise.
Turtle
Posts: 7Upvote
Thumbs down, too many exploits. No MMO survival game would do this.
And exactly how many have perpetual login exactly? ML can’t exactly be compared to every other mmo.
And I tried to give plenty of suggestions to prevent abuse. Please, enlighten me, what clever ways have you thought up to abuse this that hadn’t already been addressed?
Penguin
Posts: 2Thanks guys. I am not worried by the death of a character, because this part of the game. But it is a pity that not everything depends on the player. Disconnects and lags happen at all, and the reasons may be different, especially difficult for those who live far away from the server. I agree with the idea of invulnerability (5 min), if this can be done without breaking balance. But only against the mobs.
In my case it would not help because the server did not recognize disconnect, but I think it might help someone else.
PS I am sorry for my english.
Polar Bear
Posts: 38Ok So as everyone knows Jopah and I are married. We discussed this prior to Jopah posting. I said it could be abused if done wrong. However, if done right it could prevent bs losses. I think the 5 minute invulnerability could work if made to only affect NPCs( that includes Friendly :P). I think at the end of the day Jopah is right this is a unique enough game to have unique functions. Functions that will help with player retention are needed and I think everyone can agree to that.
PS. Pyco your English is fine. Better than many Americans and certainly better than most of our Russian. I really hope you do not quit hun 🙂
I know JVH considered solutions to this way back before permanent login was put in. He found several exploits that could be abused with invulnerability solutions – faking disconnects to buy time for yourself and call for help (against both players and NPCs), advanced exploits with alt training and NPC manipulation, etc.
The best solution he found was to make players fight back automatically when disconnected. With that said, he does want to ensure the server can detect disconnections as quickly as possible, so I know he will be investigating that to see if there is anything more he can do from the server’s end.
Dying is a huge theme of this game, so much that sometimes it feels like a ‘learning to cope with loss’ simulator. Though I know it can be extra frustrating when you feel like it was out of your hands.
As always, thanks for testing and sharing your ideas.
Having a five minute at will invulnerability is pretty crazy. Aside from what Ivana said, you could just take a fiver to go afk on floor 30 by disconnecting yourself. Or if you see one of your alternate characters in danger you could disconnect him while you go in and fight with your main, allowing you to more safely loot extra items in the dungeon. Maybe one of your weak friends is in danger, they can just log out and have you clear some monsters for them to safely get away. You could repeatedly disconnect yourself to extend the timer. Not even mentioning all of the glaring pvp flaws.
The list goes on if you want to sit and think about it. I’m sure creative people could come up with some exploits that I can’t think of on the spot. Maybe you can think of counter measures for all of these points, but why hand hold so much that you need to create 10 extra counter measures just to implement one thing that will have to be monitored so much for flaws. It’s not a good way to spend the limited manpower JVH has.
Anyhow, why is everyone so certain a five minute invulnerability would have saved Pyco to begin with? He should’ve been strong enough to fight back for a while considering his HP pool, dagger and hunting skill. The current system is fine in my opinion and doesn’t merit a long winded forum post, just like a lot of the other suggestions y’all are making. I’d rather see my one working developer expanding the game and improving server stability than catering to the woes of a small handful of people who are mildly disgruntled.
Ivana has already posted on this matter, so I’ll leave it alone itself. I do however have to address one thing that I feel is a HORRIBLE point to try and make for development. Saying something can be potentially be exploited, therefor shouldn’t even be discussed being developed is just plain wrong. How many features in this game have been exploitable along the way? Not trivial features that had to be removed either, core pieces of the game. One of the first that comes to mind being smelting. I don’t think the game would be nearly what it is today, if people were running around only swinging wood swords at each other. lol
I know most people haven’t been around quite as long as I have, and haven’t been through or reported as many bugged or exploitable features, but this is suppose to be Alpha testing. THIS is the time to suggest features that people feel would be useful, and see if they can be created and tested and perfected. Even if they could possibly have bugs. If you disagree with that core belief for the alpha testing phase, then there is a very good chance you are playing the wrong game. Come back in a few months to a year.
Wolf
Posts: 22*Whispering from the nether*
So JVH is really working to find the solution of this… intimate problem. Good, I’m glad. Good luck for him. But “The best solution he found was to make players fight back automatically when disconnected” – this thing makes me laugh. Well maybe you can fight back a goblin or a skeleton, and thats all. But the single Flame Demon or Skeleton FabulousCrownedGuy can penetrate your… whatever you have with ease. Same goes to mages. Both me and Pyco were like a terminators, killing those weak monsters in a blink of an eye, and then one single disconnection made our characters to look like dummies. As the result… you know, we died. What I wanted to say is, that the JVH’s idea was brilliant. Truly marvelous idea. It saved many lives, yes.
And I’m still not forgive him for that new skill system. I like more the concept, where the more time player spends to levelup his skill, the more skilled he becomes. I don’t like restrictions that were made in last patches – because of them players may play only in one way, when they could choose the different ways. Yeah, they still can leveling up whatever they want, but this system is really killing the whole will to do so. Like middle age crisis. If JVH wanted to make class system, the first thing he must think of, is reworking skills. Gaining 1 exp point for each repairing action – this is the good example of a horrible idea. And there goes crafting: 20 exp for crafting wooden needles and 20 exp for crafting bronze dagger. It’s telling you something, isn’t it? For me it tells that JVH is lazy ass. “I’ll set 20 exp for crafting, 20 exp for farming, 20 exp for shitting and 20 exp for every action! YES!!! I’m GENIUS!!!” – laughs he madly in the dark.
P.S. – Robin Bobin, stop being a troll, or else I’ll realy see you idiot. Well it could not help, because I already see you this way. Giving old meat for help, slandering the Frost Legion, selling yourself for wood, making stupid ideas and insulting other players, what else you can do, Robin Botterhood?
Goblin
Posts: 73Odovir!!!! <3 Glad to see you post!!!
As far as it being exploitable: can the invulnerability be restricted to only the Underworld? I mean, if it’s that big of a deal about calling for alts and friends, that requires a lot of motivation and strategy planning. And it’s something that can still be done without the invulnerability.
Hell, my computer decided to turn off on me while in the UW and I asked for somebody to log in to my toon while I was able to reboot.
In other words, the same things that are required to make this exploitable are things that people who have the friends/tribemates to contact in RL could get around anyway.
A however-many-minutes-invul will be of great help to those that get disconnected and are unable to get back on whether they are on their own or not.
Plus, like Jopah said. This game is supposed to be in testing still. We should be… you know… testing things!
Ivana, did JVH ever consider some form of cooldown for the invulnerability? Is it even possible?
I mean, if you are having disconnect issues then you shouldn’t be going to deep in the UW? But if you only disconnect once then you are safe.
Coffee is still kicking in, pardon the stream of consciousness.
Turtle
Posts: 8Now I think that the “five minutes of immortality” – does not help. Yesterday I was also disconnect when I ran down the road to the south.
Enter to the game only after 1 minute. During this time my character ran far away, all the way to the south.
That is, the server was simply did not see my disconnection all this time.
But in general – have something to do with the current situation. I really want to JVH he played in his creation, he has risen to 100 level,
He died of disconnection, again rose to the level of 100, and lost again. And then – let JVH listen to the feelings: he still wants to play it?
When that has earned hundreds of hours – lost in 30 seconds of disconnect.
And I’m already starting to not like this game at least that good and experienced players, which has already managed to become friends because of this
just go away. From this already in real life depressed mood.
I do not know …… Maybe the way – yet give to characters level 50+ to make “preservation” (save) of the character at least once in 4-5 days?
I think many people can forgive that lose after death during this time, but not hundreds of hours of gaming.
In general, the situation must be corrected …
Sorry 4 my english, “Mgimo finished” 🙂
Goblin
Posts: 73That would be interesting… some form of soulbinding for your skills/level. So, even though you might not retain the same levels you had when you died, you could still have some levels in between.
Maybe a stone that can be crafted with a lot of (not so easy to get) materials.
I don’t know how it would be affected by the lore (players having no magic), but at least magic is definitely existing in game.
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