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Posts
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Skeleton
Posts: 119My shop on Main Avenue was attacked by a person. I settled with him for a refund of 800 stone, and I allocated 600 stone to restoring the road tiles in Main Avenue. My opinion is that Main Avenue should really be super safe if we want to have a decent economy. Being super safe involves retaliating harshly against attempts of breaking. Please notice that attempts is a keyword here: in my book it’s worth almost as much retaliation as succeeding at it. Anyway I have been told that the punishment was too harsh and could discourage players. I don’t think so, but I want to hear the opinion of the server on this.
ALSO, considering that starting an economy is to the benefit of all the tradesman, I don’t think it should be upon the Frost Legion to protect the area, or upon the Frost Legion only. I’m not confirming nor denying that there is such a thing as a Cartel, but in case you have a shop anywhere and don’t belong to the Cartel, I think it would be wise to agree for mutual protection. Feel free to /t me in game.
Goblin
Posts: 99Summarise what you are asking into three sentences or less, of no more than 12 words each.
Polar Bear
Posts: 45He wants shopkeepers to defend each other. A tradesman’s militia of sorts.
Skeleton
Posts: 119Summarise what you are asking into three sentences or less, of no more than 12 words each.
(1) Survey: is 800 stone a ransom too harsh for attacking a shop? It was only an attempt, but that is the point — preventing attempts.
(2) Merchants, /t me and we will protect each other in such cases.
Goblin
Posts: 99A++ on both! 800 stone or death sounds fair to me
Goblin
Posts: 73I am against the ransom. Mostly because it will be penalizing those that are unaware of the ruling or those that are new.
I also find it ridiculous to rely on hearsay. If I start start saying that X player was attacking Frostco, with proof or not, I could be full of shit. Sure, ideally the people who report are people we trust. For example, the case your original post talked about, was with Valduk as the person reporting. I’d trust Valduk’s words. But, I think that this can be easily used to exploit and bully other players.
But, again, let’s say it’s completely true. And we rely on the hearsay. Will we expect players who did not know about this (random) rule to pay 800 stone or be put to death? What happens when it’s a higher player?
Sure, the top player would not go around doing it and they would probably have the resources to just pay the fine. But, who will actually force the player to pay the fine? Or, even, kill them?
Meh… I think the whole reporting and protecting each other is a great idea. Actually something that I brought up when FL started talking about how to set up Frostco. But the ransom? Meh…
TL;DR:
1) I think we should not rely on hearsay to excuse extortion and bullying.
2) Even if we do rely on hearsay, enforcing it is problematic.
Skeleton
Posts: 119From now on I will speak about the safety in market area from a purely theoretical perspective.
I think we are really discussing two issues: the proof issue, and the retaliation issue.
(1) PROOF ISSUE
In regards to the proof issue I don’t recall anyone asking for screenshots to retaliate against attacks on one’s property before this attempt. That’s why you want people you can trust in this game.
(2) RETALIATION ISSUE
For discussing the retaliation issue let’s suppose that there is a proof or clue that everyone deems sufficient enough.
a. If the attacker is low level, he hasn’t got much to lose.
b. If the attacker is mid level, he hasn’t got much excuse for attacking property.
c. If the attacker is high level, everything he does is a big deal and if the owner of the shop isn’t strong enough he won’t be able to retaliate without asking for help.
Points a and b make it quite clear why I deem it a retaliation reasonable enough. I even see points for arguing that it isn’t enough, since one can decide that instead of dying for dust he will try and attack a shop. Let the retaliation be too soft and the next most profitable activity is attacking property.
I was going to leave this alone, but since Rin has been pming nonstop about this issue and made another forum post on it, I suppose I should address a couple things here.
Should the marketplace be safe? Yes, that is generally a good thing. However, if any player can simply say they saw someone hitting a market stall at any point, and then extort resources out of them, how likely do you think it will be that anyone will ever want to go to the marketplace?
As far as the proof issue goes, in the past, if someone physically caught someone else breaking their stuff, they’d kill them or warn them and be done with the matter. Or if evidence was left, it could be taken into consideration. Though I feel opening the option for any player to claim something about someone else, and using that as hard evidence opens a lot of doors, that I don’t think most people will want to go down.
On your actions and retaliation in general, I think trying to publicly humiliate them, then having them repair the whole place, THEN picking an arbitrary amount of resources you want, and demanding it from a player with no proof, then making their tribe pay for it after they quit, was just wrong, and also sets a very risky precedent that I don’t think people would be very happy with in the long run.
I am pretty damn sure if FL went and did this exact thing, there would be an outcry, from you and several others. As there has been in the past for less ridiculous things.
And before someone goes on a rant about how the same thing would have happened. FL’s market has been vandalized dozens of times (where there was something actually lost, not just a wall smacked) and there was also a real break-in attempt where a wall was almost broke through, and a tribe gate was broken down. We had more evidence than you, and two suspects. We went and investigated both, and in the end, didn’t extort whatever we wanted from them or their friends, didn’t even kill them actually. We gave them a warning that break-ins will be met with death, and the matter was done.
Goblin
Posts: 73Yeah… I call BS at nobody asking for screenshots for proof.
When the whole Robin fire pit area happened that was one of the things he did. He shares a screenshot on /b.
When the chair silliness occur at the courthouse happened not only were screenshots asked for, but a group of us went as “witnesses”.
a. If the attacker is low level, he hasn’t got much to lose.
It really depends on the level and how invested they became in the game so far. It’s not much about how much they have to lose. It’s about how much they think it’s worth it at the time and the perception it creates. I know that if at a low level I would have done something like this and I would have been extorted 800 stone out of fear to die I would have thought that the player base was not worth it.
As weird as this sounds, I much prefer to do something at the moment to the players doing wrong shit. Warn them, by saying stop or you are dead. They don’t stop, you kill. They do it again, you kill, or jail them. The end. The whole extortion business sounds shady as fuck. And the way you keep pushing it is even shadier, imo.
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