May 16, 2018 at 11:27 am #7319
I’d like to propose a feature that I would add to the current PVP and death mechanics in a way that favors all parties. It will incentivize those killed by PK to retaliate more quickly, instead of just shrug it off. It will add an extra level of risk to excessive PKing, without restricting it any any way beyond the standard system already in place. It adds a layer of complexity to combat that forces players (both victim and killer) to consider when to retreat and recover, or when to attack.
I suggest that there be a “Flagged Item” system in place. If you die, any items lost upon death are Flagged, and will have a small indication, (!) perhaps, to indicate the item as such. Likewise, any player that picks them up will be marked as well with a small icon to indicate that they are carrying Flagged items. When the player drops those flagged items, their mark vanishes but remains on the item, and will Flag any new player that picks it up again.
Flags continue for a duration to be determined, and is a flat duration of time no matter what level the player is. If killed by PVP it is perhaps that the duration of the flag is increased by the infamy of the killer. If a player attempts to log out with flagged items, those flagged items are dropped to the ground instead of remaining with the player. Consumable Flagged Items (potions, resources, ropes, etc) cannot be consumed or used until the Flag duration has concluded and the item is no longer flagged. Flagged items can be dropped, as normal, inside homes and any location on the map.
ALL Flagged items will be dropped upon death. Any death, whether PVP or PVE, that results in items dropped, will flag those dropped items. Flagged items do not discriminate between quantity or quality of items, and does not affect stolen items from homes during aids – it only affects those items dropped on death.
The benefits of implementing such a system should be apparent, but I will explain, as initially it might come across as protective and harmful to PVP. In reality, it only ADDS mechanics, ENCOURAGES retaliation, and BALANCES the loss/gains of killed/killer.
It makes no sense to me that a player might slay 20 people across a server (exaggeration for visibility of the effects on this system I propose), obtain all their items, gain experience at the other’s loss, and gain power at the other’s weakening.
Most players I see killed will hide and gather themselves rather than immediately retaliate. The players who die lose their items and experience are effectively weakened. They lose the ability, somewhat, to retaliate. They have no great incentive to retaliate, for they have already lost valuables and will be more likely to die the next time, as they are weakened. There is nothing to be gained by immediate retaliation, unless perhaps you ARE one of those top PKers who has loads of other players’ items to replenish your lost items and do so. Most players are not top-tier PKers.
On the other hand, a PKer will lose the same amount of items of those they’ve killed. Even if they’ve killed 20 (the exaggeration). They DO risk their exp, myst, personal items, and others (the same as us all) but they also gain more items in the process than those lost by the slain.
This system does NOT inhibit the ability to kill, steal, or otherwise enact PVP mechanisms. This system is a FLAT System. It ENCOURAGES PVP because a player who loses an item, or player(s), will have more incentive to retaliate. Unlike the current system, where you’re not guaranteed to even retrieve a stolen item IF you managed to kill you thief. Likewise, even a PKer who dies and loses valuable PK gear will be incentivized to hunt down their would-be victim to get it back.
It’s fair to all parties, and encourages ACTION rather than INaction. It encourages groups to gang up on PKers, as the risk to act will result in ALL the victims’ items being returned, not just 5v1 where the 1 PKEr -MAYBE- drops 1 of the 5 player’s items.
It would add to the risk and strategy of a PKer to choose when to retreat and wait out the Flag expiration, and when to continue. (It was proposed that, should you find an H5 item, you should go wait it off! No longer are you even slightly protected from going on a wanton killing spree and preventing your new treasure from being returned to your target). In addition to forcing the PKer to make more important choices, the victims have limited time to retain their items (with certainty), forcing them to act rather than wait and simply raid the attacker later (as is often the case).
This proposed system encourages a more engaged PVP relationship between players, encouraging retaliation, rewarding attacking (See someone with some flags? THINK OF THE GOODIES!) and promotes a (HEALTHY) pvp system, rather than the current one where high-tier players will rake the lower-tiered and even when they die lose only a portion of what they’ve gained, while the killed must suffer and have no guarantee of ever retrieving their goods.
This is a very recent thought, but I think it is a sound idea and so I’m proposing it right away. Feel free to workshop this if you think there could be changes that would add to it.
It is NOT intended to protect players, I do not want this to be warped into some protectionist mechanic where PKers are inhibited – rather I want their to be a richer give-take-risk-reward relationship.
Let me know what you think, but this is meant to be a productive suggestion, not an inhibiting one for any party involved. So don’t rule it out until you’ve considered it – and if you have nothing constructive to add, keep your opinions to yourself.
ApokusMay 17, 2018 at 7:06 am #7328CookieCop
Lvl 64 USTexas
That’s to complicated. when mechanics are complicated, it usually means they are bad.
The following mechanics would be better:
-Make it so players executed (not murdered) with less than X time alive have a VERY high chance of dropping items, possibly all items.
-Make so players executed (not murdered) with less than X time alive have a % chance of loosing something like a blue star, or trait.
By basing it on time alive, you take into account people going on killing sprees. if they kill 2 people, get executed, their time alive goes to 0. if they kill someone again and get executed, they risk loosing quite a lot of stuff, more than the person they are targeting.
May 17, 2018 at 7:22 am #7330
- This reply was modified 3 days, 6 hours ago by CookieCop.
Your response is the type of feature I was avoiding. Yours punishes PVP, and not incentivizing ALL players to participate more readily (instead of hesitantly as is).
My mechanic is not complicated. I was explaining pros and cons – not the mechanics. Mine adds richness, not restriction as yours does. Restriction is rarely a good addition to playing mechanics, I want to promote not inhibit.
Mechanics are INCREDIBLY simple:
– If you die, all items dropped by that death are Flagged
– Flagged items, when picked up by anyone other than original owner, will always drop on death, for a duration in which they are flagged
– Holding a flagged item indicates you carry them.
– Items that are still Flagged on logging out, will drop.
Super easy. I am not differentiating between murdered or executed. This is not intended to punish the pker by forcing them to lose more of their OWN Items. This applies to Non-pkers as well, perhaps someone who picked up items from a corpse.
This mechanic adds risk, adds (layer of) complexity (not mechanical), and incentive to retaliate, provoke people who may have found a corpse, and NOT punish more than infamy already does.May 18, 2018 at 7:07 am #7352CookieCop
Lvl 64 USTexas
Simple mechanics don’t need 14 paragraphs to describe. Your attempting to make a mechanic where there is always a chance that a player can get their items back. This is not possible to do given the way the game is set up.
I see nothing in your suggestion that prevents the following which is typical behaviour:
Meany goes and kills someone, then goes back to their base and drops the loot they got.
If your suggestion cant handle the typical behaviour of players, then their is no point in it.May 18, 2018 at 1:28 pm #7359
Cookie, this makes me feel as though you didn’t read those 14 paragraphs, which was 90% giving context when and how it would function. Didn’t read the examples that demonstrate a possible scenario.
Your suggested behavior is not in any shape or form defeating the feature – it is in fact one in which would have to then become a choice, to abandon killing to retreat and drop. That is an acceptable possibility. None of this is meant to “handle” behavior, but encourage variety in behavior, and promote new ones – beyond “kill kill kill, run, drop, leave for day”. There is never a moment during “kill kill kill kill kill” that the player must consider that the risks of all they’ve taken while pvping outweighs continuing to do so, and must tactically retreat to drop and what it may be.
Imagine this during a raid, or a kill-fest, or you see a person walking down road with a flag indicator, or you see a pker with a flag even (who typically you would avoid, but could potentially kill) and this encourages you to grab all of what THEY took.
This encourages behavior, it is not meant to greatly reduce or affect current ones.
I appreciate the criticism, but I feel that you do not fully understand it’s implementation or its function to provide adequate counter-arguments as to why it wouldn’t be a positive addition to the game. Aside from “they can just go drop it.”. That is already an action I had considered. And it is one of many choices that would have to be weighed. Your counter does not take note that it would be a weighed decision to go drop off stolen items- where as before, the decision wasn’t there at all, as death would NOT force all flagged items to drop. So in a sense, your suggested behavior is one that we WOULD see more of, and it would change the dynamics of movement over maps/storage/combat during PVP. In that scenario, even, it would give a short breather to whoever is being attacked/raided, and encourage raiders to perhaps break in to their base if they see their flagged items sitting there easily identified.
Likewise, this is also applicable to NON-PK scenarios. If a player dies in UW and another player takes their items, it gives incentive to the other player to act upon the person who took them. IT encourages PVP and banditry (beyond just RANDOM killing, now there is a guaranteed reward). Again, just one, tiny little additional thing to consider with this function. I could list many of them (as I did in the original post, I thought?) where such a feature would come into play.
Regardless, I’d love some OTHER voices here – and as I said in the original post, constructive is better than a difference of opinion here. IE How could the feature be improved, not “I don’t understand/like it”.
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